Xerocoo: Feels like its people who want to tell THEIR story for a paycheck, and not writers that LOVE the Warcraft story and want to respect what was and grow from it.

ianhorne9594: The primal incarnates in this aspect were a breath of fresh air when they showed up in DF after being released and they told us why they felt the way the felt and why they were against us. Iridikron still has his cards to play in the last titan

TheMexRAGE: Going from wow to ffxiv, it is just so noticeable at how glacial pace wow story moves, the base endwalker msq would be like 5 of wow's entire expansions main stories combined.

shaterlemming2549: Now we need Jesse Cox to react to Nobbels react

adamt4553: The problem with WoW’s story telling is that it’s never ending. If you look take the first example with arthas’ story and you break up each mission into a point 0 patch then you’re looking at 4 expansions at a minimum to tell his story in the base game minimum. How would you feel 2 years in and arthas just sacked Strathome. It would feel like it makes sense with the story logic but it would feel so unexciting to experience. The only reason it works is because you immediately move on to the next mission and to the end of the story in the next 3 hours and then reflect on it. After this saga is done I’m sure the story will feel better, but your experiences of it won’t, because you were stuck on strathome for 16 weeks before finally going to Northrend.

TrustworthyStrangerr: Ahhhhhhhh crossover of my two sexiest WoW YouTubers!!!!! Please just do another fishing with crendor or some other collaboration or something!!

ReyReyzzz: I think what also plays a part in the feeling of disconnect to wow’s modern villains is how badly supported wow’s legacy content is.

I’m sure that if BFA and Legion’s content was properly presented to players as something worth doing on alts or mains then a lot of people would like current Xal’atath more because by the time they finish those expansions and reach Midnight, then they’d be familiar with her and know what’s up with her.

All of this is to say: Chromie Time DIRELY needs a complete revamp. All Legacy raids should be sync-able and queue-able at all times. Literally almost all of the story’s big lore moments are in the raids, so the fact that they’re not supported at all by Chromie Time is insane to me, and don’t get me started on how Chromie Time doesn’t support any patch content of any expansion either. It’s just a terrible system as it is now.

I know that this is obviously a big ask, but if blizz want people to take wow’s storytelling seriously they gotta lay in the groundwork first before aiming for the sky.

ahona1231: I'd say the fact that we don't have tie in GAMES that set up the events in the world make it harder for us to connect with them

piffling2238: My take-away is WoW's biggest issues is pacing and holding onto mystery storytelling too long. Some of this is due to the limitations of telling a 20 year saga in an MMO. That aside a lot of what we love about WoW is still there.

greenchilistudioz4537: Crendor barely reads lore lol

SegFaults-p7y: 13:28 I feel like we have the "You can't comprehend my plans!" like you said because they don't know what the plan it. I feel there is a lot of "put it out there, and see how they respond" level of writing. As an addition, IMO, they need to decide on the plan before expansion launch, actually hint at it if they insist on keeping the full truth to the end. TWW felt so.... fractured... narrative wise. We went from Kaz'algar to goblins to Ethereals. which could, on its own, be more than one expansion worth of content....

Mostovy: 49:15 I would disagree with that, GW2 managed to make a story with big consequences despite being an MMO. Lion's Arch being destroyed, Sylvari being corrupted by Mordremoth, entire zones destroyed and rebuilt. I think WoW is just scared to make changes that could potentially antagonize anyone. They can't just kill one faction/species representative (Sylvanas) because it would make some people very mad.

williamarndt7765: Wow haven't been this early before

AlexanderForsman: Biggest issue is lack of consistency and actions having consequences.

Do these two and you shouldn't need long explanations. And can still have mysteries, as the players would trust you can deliver.

camsmyth101: Modem WoW has become like I’m constantly doing chores and not having fun. That’s my opinion.

igor953: Why is this dude calling crendor they/them?

BiggaNiqqa: Because they replaced the entire team with "girl bosses and dudes pretending to be girl bosses" it's really not rocket science lol. Love how people will do these hour long theories when the answer is as simple as "Troons can't create only destroy"

TheRealCeeJai: I think there was an ocean of difference between how the Burning Legion influenced Arthas and how the Void influences Alleria. With Alleria, you can't really tell if she's making the decisions herself or if she's being overtaken by the void. Arthas made his choices of his own free will, not directly under the influence of anything. The Legion was GENIUS in how they created the Lich King from Arthas. The Void just feels like it's directly pulling peoples strings and being very hamhanded about how it makes people do things.

jimpeppercorn6244: The wow historian team discussion @ 24:00 reminds me of metzens role during wow development (ala John Staats book). Jeff K and Pat Nagle would get lore breakdowns for a zone, then they would go off with metzens stamp. I can’t think of lore continuity being a problem from wc2 -> vanilla, and I believe it’s due to that dynamic.

The historian team working in that capacity would definitely solve any honest mistakes with lore.

But that was also a very different company. This is an entirely different property and company at this point.

TheRealCeeJai: 9:57 They didn't need to. KJ sat as one of the big bad villains in WC3 - an unknowable, hugely powerful entity that we were not meant to confront or fight directly. Archimonde's first death on Hyjal kind of drives this point home: we don't actually fight him, he's too powerful. Instead, we basically just stall and delay while the uber-powerful entities on our side confront and destroy him.

And no, KT is pretty open about what he's doing in WC3. (At least concerning his original motivations before the SDL retcon.) He's there to serve the Lich King, and gain incredible power in necromancy and eternal life. Pretty basic, yes, but he was also a low-level 'enabler' villain.

P.S. - The motivations of Sargeras, the ultimate bad guy, were known back in WC2 or 3. So, yes, we knew why he wanted Azeroth dead all the way back then.

Falk1987: WoW used to be a great game about war, conflict, violence and well-written characters. Now it's about flowers, rainbows and friendship is magical.

Also, why are you refering to Crendor as "them"? There is only one of him mate.

DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL: About which person you cater to, either the new player who hasn't delved into the story or the veteran who knows the lore, there is an actual answer.

If you cater to the new player and retcon something, then the new player gets more story but the veteran gets mad because of the retcon.

If you cater to the veteran and keep the lore consistent, then the new player gets more story and the veteran doesn't get mad because of the retcon.

Doesn't mean they won't get mad for other reasons, but is the chance that such people might not be pleased justification for not making the effort?

I don't think it is.

kch1303: I think the story beats are and have always been literally the same. The story is just delivered worse now because it's an MMO and because of the way the story is released is less efficient.

pkWreck: Good point by Kitsuprime @12:06 - Many of the big bads were bad becuase they were bad and wanted to do bad stuff. They didn't have characterisation or deep morals, or understandable motivations.

I think the problem is that mordern WoW (and modern storytelling in general) tries too hard to make every villain relatable, flawed and morally grey. Sargeras is bad because he is a demon. Kiljaeden is bad because he is a demon. Archimonde is bad because he is a demon, and they all want to destroy the world because they are bad demons.

Nowdays, every villain has to be nuanced, flawed, compelling, misunderstood, misled, or whatever else. We understood Mal'ganis was a bad guy becuase he was a demon, so when someone relatable got led astray by someone we knew was bad, in a relatable way, we cared and felt it. Now Sargeras was turned crazy by the void (let's not talk about the jailer), Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden were Draenei who were promised power by Sargeras, Mal'ganis is a Nathrezim so was secretly working for Denathrius, etc, etc, etc...

It doesn't need to be relatable all the way up, there has to be a guy we can just agree is a bad dude and a threat.

Modern storytelling has become like experimental jazz. It's more impressive technically and by that metric could be considered 'better', but to the common audience it sounds like shit, and they still want to listen to the same simple popular music, only with a slight twist.

jshadowhunter: Since when did you start treating Crendor like royalty that you're referring to him as multiple people?

andersstrom740: Too much of Disneyfication of modern world of warcraft. Feels its aimed towards children/Kids. Its just so sad...

aesfadawdawfawfawferes: 37:15 Crendor did some great voice acting there

Aug 07 2026

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