rct6518: Heroic Throne of Thunder is amazing. I am loving it right now in MoP.

kylechermak7092: The raids being oneshot on day one is really misleading.

The world first guilds spend 100/hr weeks (16hr days, not sure if they get a day off or not) practicing their speedrun of ToT on 25H.

The guild that won wiped on their world first clear, too.

They arent walking in and killing it natty but for some reason people assume that's what they are doing

thimlee: The way I look at people crapping on decade old raids that have had every aspect of them thoroughly mapped out -- is like a highschooler being taught Calculus and thinking man, Isaac Newton didn't learn this til his 20's? What an idiot.

matteolari8361: Nighthold-tos-antorus

nickthebold: nylotha into castle nathria was a pretty good one two punch

ze444: Tomb of Sargeras is an F tier raid. Genuinely the worst raid tier ever made as a whole. What fights are good? Certainly not Mistress, Fallen Avatar, or KJ. KJ is like the 2nd worst fight of all time, only beaten out by Mythic Stone Legion. The basic design of the fights is bad at every step, INSANE class/immunity stacking even for mid level CE guilds just to perform the basic mechanics of the fight. Horrible.

Ducemin: Karazhan is in a league of its own as a game experience imo

Then

Sunwell

Ulduar

ToT

SoO

hoffi4893: I hate statements like "they oneshot every raid in Classic" cause it is not true.

There were 9 full days of PTR testing which is the progress in Classic ( P-Servers). It is just more like an MDI tbh. The practice/progress is on the PTR/Tournamentrealm.

The guild FFS for example (WR4) streamed there PTR tests and they had 100 wipes on Animus and Lei Shen and even 50 on Raden. I am pretty sure it was the same for Numen and Progress and both guilds have former World First Raiders in the guild.

Of course it is way easier than retail but it is not that easy. Most guilds after WR 10 have 50 pulls on Lei Shen and after Top 20/30 it is around 100. And you have a lot of good players and very good prep in that guilds.

This is all with old content gear of course. But i love it that the raids get nerfed by getting gear and you dont need nerfs etc for weaker guilds. That is how it should be in an MMO tbh.

bambuco2: There's no shot anyone has SANCTUM in their top 3 that raid was garbage

rasmusa9415: These old and new pve andys think they are good at the game when they hit npcs that are meant to be beaten lmao

DownsyMB: I stopped raiding mid way through WoD and came back for classic. Mine are....

1. Ulduar

2. ICC

3. ToT

4. Blackrock Foundry

5. Seige of Org

My guild just finished ToT and while it was fun it didnt hold up the same way Ulduar and ICC did.

PhiloGing: They don't one shot them, they beat them 400 times in PTR. It's a little ridiculous.

Briansgate: I don't know about raids, but definitely the dungeons were better.

thatepicwizardguy: old raids felt less formulaic and predictable. they all had things in common but these days almost every boss of every raid is kind of what you expect or less and you get a similar amount of bosses with predictable walls and whatnot whereas MOST older raids didn't have any of those problems.

they played pretty differently, required some weird things at times, and random bosses could absolutely stonewall guilds even with knowledge in a way new ones don't. part of that last bit is player knowledge difference but the other things are completely on design.

borga6566: I think Siege, ToT, ICC, Ulduar, and Karazhan are always going to be some of my top raids. Especially Siege and ICC, they're just great from both gameplay and narrative perspectives.

jameysotelo540: I can't really so for on content since I started wow basically leading into WoD. But I'd probably say for me, blackrock foundry, hellfire citadel, and going into emerald nightmare is probably my favorite back to back to back banger raids. Ny'alotha is still my all time favorite raid, I have yet to do a raid that can top that for me personally

iOniCGamingTV: Karazhan and ICC for me!

scratcharmstrong: Ulduar, BRF, Karazhan

leitmotif6854: Throne/Siege/Highmaul/Blackrock clears on either side of the 3 way split and it is not close

sparklefartzpwnt: Yes they are and it's not really a comparison.

jacekkulinski4414: If were looking from an "at the time" way then wed have to set a post wotlk or something start point otherwise then classic wins defacto.

MC has nothing to be compared to and its straight improvements all the way maybe slight L on cthun. Generally raids got better each time from classic onwards and not until Wrath do we start seeing some misses like nax re release, ToC, Ruby sanctum

johnholton6485: Raiding will be fun again once they make sure addons do not defeat the fights for everyone especially at the top

sasukefaan: Nathria has to be the move overrated shit ever. also that tier lasted for like 8 god damn months.

billjohnson2307: I think I prefer old raids mainly coming down to simplicity in a way. Like not having just so much stuff flashing onto my screen and the boss just throwing 8 mechanics in my face in like 3 seconds of just entering combat with them. I also love the look of a lot of older raids too such as Naxx, Black temple, Sunwell, Tempest keep, Karazhan, Ulduar, and ToT. New raids look nice like for me Nighthold absolutely loved the raid (mainly once u pass the first 3 bosses), Eternal palace (hot take) wasnt shabby imo atleast thematically that place was great but fights prob could of been better, Castle Nathria & Sanctum are 2 of my top 5 favorite raids just from boss fights alone (with Stone legion Generals from CN & Fatescriber from SoD being probably my least favorites of those raids), and then Amidressil from DF. But yeah i think ima go Old > New and yeah i could just say i suck but honestly i just dont enjoy pushing myself into the hardest content im more of i wanna enjoy what im playing and have fun with it.

nilsp9426: Also do not think that ToT was just easily oneshot. There was a ton of prep to make it look this way and make it consistent. They had years and a full recap of successful clears from back then to prepare for these raids.

blueoutrider: I raid causally on MoP classic, didn’t look up a guide, no prep beyond the dungeon journal once in the bosses room, and still one shot many of the bosses.

The friends and guild I play with is what makes it fun, not the raids.

Dec 25 2025

Buy WOW Classic Gold (lvl60)