ProfessorLink64: Hiding something? Well we didn't see a poison swamp anywhere in there so that's certainly well hidden if nothing else.
leoceanman3044: Vaati: Finally, my 5.5 hr AC lore vid is out, maybe I can take a breather…

From Soft on a Tuesday:
LobosjrGaming: IT'S HERE
NarutoUzumaki-xp7nx: Me watching the trailer - This makes little sense

Vaati opening dialogue - Everything makes so much sense
jacquesbossou5484: I've always found it strange how most people think that Miquella is inspired by Griffith from Berserk, while we literally have Marika in front of our eyes: using strong and loyal warriors, and mass sacrifices, to establish her order, based on a great tree.
Miquella would rather use his own blood than people's lives to make his tree grow.
I think Miquella is truly as kind as the characters in game say, and Marika is the one inspired by Griffith and his deceptions.
xr3la: The red gate of bodies is shaped almost exactly the same as the gate through which you enter the Erdtree.
In game, you don't directly physically enter the Erdtree, but teleport via a golden seal. Leyndell and Altus have the iconic golden sky and clouds as well.
This to me looks like the first scene takes place inside the Erdtree, physically, before the gate was sealed. And Marika is lifting the rune arc as to show it to the world outside.
Also, the Erdtree absorbs bodies in current timelime, so it would not be surprising if it originally sprouted, or was built from a mass of bodies. And Miquella watered the Haligtree, another sapling of Erdtree, with his own blood. It all connects quite well I think
callumhilliard2207: I wonder if Miquella wasn’t kidnapped by Mohg, but instead planned it with Mohg for him to steal him away. If Miquella found out/figured out it required a lot of bodies or blood to create an Erdtree than who better to help him with it than the blood lord himself, and it would makes Mohg’s proclamation make more sense when he says “this is the beginning of our dynasty” when it actually was, because they’re working together.
abysswalker7794: Something I have never see someone realized is that if Miquella left everything behind, even his fate then he left behind Malenia too, maybe that's why he left his blinding strength, that strength is his sword, that strength is Malenia, Blade of Miquella
MonkeyDLuffy-fl3eb: I've been waiting for this.
It's funny how so many were too, seeing the comments for the trailers. You've become a central part of the Soulsborne franchise
jorgwei8590: I think you are spot on with Miquella's realization of how much blood you need to raise an Erdtree. There is this massacre around Vulkano manner, and you can loot sacrificial twigs from the heaps of corpses.
This starts to look a lot like what is going on in the realm of shadow. The fire, the mount of corpses feeding twigs, the serpent. I think the Great Serpent is very likely from the Land of Shadows, maybe in allegiance with Mesmer, maybe it's its own agent.
Dinoenthusiastguy: Fastest objects in the universe:
3) Photon
2) Tachyon
1) Vaati analyzing a new From trailer
charliec.-lite1466: Is this the secret Marika wanted to hide? That it wasn't the crucible that birthed life, but life that birthed the crucible? Now I'm starting to consider that the Omen curse might be, in actuallity, the product of the collective lingering hatred of all those sacrificed to grow the Erdtree.
optimalrefundable: the imagery of St Trina as the music swells is so damn majestic.
HATEDMADNES: It actually looks as though the dead lion dancers (in the wide shot) are actually 3 separate lion costumes with two operators per lion. Each cape has two spears holding them up, one body per spear.
_ONGBAL: FINALLY!
Kvltklassik: Personal theory:

The imagery of Marika pulling out those golden threads has very clear references to lower regions of the human body.
You'll note that Radagon's fractured body had the three rings of the elden ring in his chest.
As you pointed out the upper arc is what Marika is crucified on.

So where is the lower arc. Literally. Where on or about the body is the lower arc, given we know the rings are in the chest, and the upper arc is over the head.
Following from that, where is Marika pulling these threads from, which represent AN arc, perhaps not the upper arc...
AscendantStoic: 1-Melina was born at the the base of the erdtree!
2-She was burned and bodiless! (burned by whom, Messmer's flame!?)
3-She has a gloamy eye with a very clear indigo tint (gloam-eyed, also gloam means twilight sky which we see in this trailer)
4-She was given purpose by her "mother"! ("mother" here could be the gloam-eyed queen not Marika)
5-She wanted to restore destined death!

My guess that all this time in the original game Melina was kinda in service of her mother the gloam-eyed queen goals (restore destined death and kill the gods), potentially she could be the daughter of Radagon and the Gloam-eyed Queen and she was helping us destroy Marika's regime also as revenge for what Marika did to her mother (the whole shape-shifting, affair and betrayal business she is known for, Ranni probably feels the same after what Marika did to her mother Rennala).

Also the thing that Marika puts her bloodied hand into to pull the golden strings is most likely a Godskin Swaddling Cloth --> Sacred cloth of the Godskin Apostles, made from supple skin sewn together, the Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods.

You should thank Eugene the Author for figuring it was the Swaddling Cloth.
campbellmaggs4384: Wild how much the shot of falling St Trina looks like the nascent butterfly ey
spaciest: Since Marika had her Radagon, maybe Miquella has his Trina. A separate half that exists to eventually make him whole, but unlike Marika he chooses to deny Trina and forge a different path?
rainy_7129: That whole beginning scene is my favorite piece of art fromsoft has ever made.
elementoflight6834: something that wanst mentioned:
The roman looking soldiers of Messmers Army have a lot in common to Ds Twinned Armor, the helmet especially has the same kind of bronze faceplate and trimming.
ragna6410: I want that Golden Armor.
bleedszn: good looks shouting out Queelag, her vids are super in depth /helpful for anyone tryna get caught up on all the lore prior to DLC
PlatinumAltaria: Miquella is abandoning his destiny in a similar way to Ranni: casting away her empyrean flesh and denying the will of the two fingers. St. Trina is that empyrean form, but unlike Ranni Miquella has two forms, two bodies, and so he doesn't need to do any black knife stuff. If you examine the endings of Elden Ring there's a lot of similar threads to Miquella's journey: the crucible, rejection of grace, trying to create a new, more perfect order, the omen curse, and the rune of death.
unqualifiedprofessortanuki1757: The way marika stands in between the two columns of Bodies looks exactly like how id expect someone staring out from inside the erd tree would look
arnokhachatourian8928: That scene looks like Marika sealing off the Land of Shadow from the Lands Between like a fkin oblivion gate. Possibly with some sort of Griffith-esque sacrifice
mikealphaxray228: I think the event at the beginning of the trailer — Marika reaching into the thing and standing at the thing and ascending to godhood — happens at the END of the war we see in the trailer. It is her having prevailed in her war against the god of the previous ag and standing inside the crucible next to the slain god. The same way we fight Radagon/Eldenbeast inside the erdtree.
levistogsdill638: What I found interesting was the difference between narrators in the trailers. In the first, they considered Miquella’s charm as ‘terrifying’ and seemingly manipulative, while in the story trailer, he is considered ‘kindly’ and having sacrificed all for his journey. I think it’s entirely possible that the second narrator has a skewed view of events, as they have supposedly become a vehement follower of Miquella and were thus seduced by his charm.
eaGLeZFan97: This trailer was incredibly evocative, especially the Marika and Messmer scenes. My hype for the DLC is now reaching critical levels.
MatPlayingVidyaRPP: "An affair from which gold arose... and so too was shadow born." I believe it refers to the erdtree itself arising as it grew, as well as it's shadow counterpart.
stan2139: I would love for the Lands Between to be a limbo between the "Lands of Shadow" and the "Land bathed in rays of gold" that Godrick talks about in his death
ianprager4275: What if Messmer is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Radagon — thus a child of Marika by proxy, who came to his mother’s (but not birth mother) side? I feel also like his flame, and the gateway of bodies, are connected to the “blasphemous” flame that Rykard sought to tap.
KABLAMMATS: "let's break it down"
*Cuts to vaati breakdancing*
MrCole62195: That first part is some insanely heavy handed imagery for the birth of a new age
borisstamatov4877: Given the hidden eye of Mesmer, I think it more likely that he and Melina are siblings, both children of the gloom-eyed queen, and their father is Marika/Radagon.
Migren2009: btw Messmer the Impaler wasm teased in network version through fire head assets in limgrave if i am not mistaken .
johant73: hearing your theory, i think marika tricked gloam eyed queen via radagon, then repeat the same with renalla. Messmer would be the child of that relationship. another wild guess is land of shadow were actually the "real world" and the deathless world is the world created via elden ring, messmer's war and tyranny was actually moving (plus resetting) all the souls into lands between, basically bringing everyone to live eternally in the "afterlife".
Alam220696: Just noticed that while all the warriors at the end of the trailer are facing one way, there's one furthest at the back who is not and has his back to camera. Interesting...
Maleniabom: Note, when you hear a crash, wind blow, and Elden beasts ost play, I’ve heard someone say that it must literally be when the Elden beast came down to appear to Marika
cosigmatic6281: Something I’ve noticed about the gate scene, is that the shape of it is near identical to the erdtree - particularly the odd section of the Erdtree that’s inexplicably a different colour. It’s always seemed weird to me that most of the Erdtree is gold and glowing, but there’s a random brown bit, that for whatever reason doesn’t burn like the rest of it does.
piusdoe8984: Love when creators actually show other creators channel when mentioning them. Increases chances of people actually checking them out and provides spelling of their names. Nice one Vaati
deadlycanadian05: When u said Marika wanted no songs sung about this place or the war it made me think of the old singing bat enemies, and I think I remember their translated lyrics saying something like "golden one whom were you so mad at?" And that made me think what if they're referring to mesmers war
darth_mufasa1649: One thing I noticed which might not have been intentional but the silhouette of Saint Trina falling in the trailer looks a lot like the item icon for the Nascent Butterflies. Could further the connection there
SemitoSolaris: About the Crucible Theory @ around 11 min mark, they started piling corpses in Castle Morne too, maybe because thats how they did things before? The way the Crucible Tree was created
crimsonsoul1151: So I was doing some recap of the elden ring lore with some of my friends and we notice something interesting. (Not DLC related)

All of what can be considered the “Cursed children of Marika” seem to follow the naming scheme of their mother Marika, while the otherwise “healthy” children seemed to follow the naming conventions of her consort at the time. And I was beginning to speculate on whether or not that may have any wider lore implications. I find it more interesting in that the first two (Morgott and Mohg) seem to mirror the first issue with Marika’s ideal for the eternal golden order. That being the idea of a “before” with the twins bearing aspects of the crucible. Where the last set of twins (Malenia and Miquella) appear to foreshadow the end of her “eternal” age with Malenia symbolizing the Rot that was beginning to settle into Marika’s golden order, as it had to be changed from her original vision with every new ideology incorporated within; where miquella foreshadows the beginning of a new age which has been halted in progression by Marika’s eternal golden order.
AkioJunichiro: My first thought at the start of the trailer with the mountain of bodies was ‘So that's how you make Erdtree’.
Nakna_ankaN: The line “…an affair through which gold arose and so too was shadow born” indicates that before gold and shadow existed as contrasting concepts they were one. I believe that Marika acting on behalf of the greater will, sealed off shadow from gold and what we see in the trailer is her in the process of closing a gateway between the two realms.

The tree we see in the land of shadow is split down the middle and golden sap seems to be oozing from in. I believe that one faction wants to open this gateway, while another is trying to keep it shut and that the tree that coils around the split tree and that most people thought was trying to consume the other tree is in fact trying to pry it open or perhaps more likely keep it shut.

We know the game world as the lands between, perhaps because it exits between shadow and gold. There is some cut dialogue from the Godrick’s dying monologue:
“There is only one tree, and only its branches.
That bathe in true rays of gold.
Not the fool Omen King.
Nor the rank malformed twins.”

The trees he’ referring to must be the Erdtree and Miquella’s haligtree, suggesting then that at some point in the production of the game there may have been a third, TRUE tree and perhaps the line of returning together to our home bathed in rays of gold isn’t referring to Leyndell, but to a realm of gold where this third tree is located.

Messmer being a child of Marika or Radagon seems all but certain and I believe him to be the firstborn child of Marika and Radagon. First, because all the other unions resulted in three children, and just like Malenia and Miquella, his name starts with an M, but also because there are three different types of butterflies; the aeonian that relates to Malenia and the nascent that relates Miquella, the smoldering then relating to Messmer and his flame seems like too good of a fit not to be the case.

If this is the case then it would stand to reason that he is also cursed in some way and one thing I took note of back when he was revealed is how different aspects of him is very similar to other characters. His spear is very similar to Mohgwyn’s sacred spear, he has what looks like several small dragon wings and a large snake that is either coiling around him or is part of him.

Could it be that his curse is that he is influenced by several outer gods at once, that perhaps several has within him, joined forces to oppose the greater will or that he is able to wield their power, while not be under their influences?

Part of the description of Mohgwyn’s sacred spear reads; “…it is an instrument of communion with an outer god who bestows power upon accursed blood” referring to The formless mother, the dragon wings could be a sign of the god to whom Placidusax served as Elden lord, the snake is the serpent god and his fire could potentially come from the fell god.

I’ve had a theory for quite some time that Marika herself became an unwilling participant in the golden order. That the seduction mentioned in the trailer refer to how the greater will seduced Marika in order to serve its purpose and that the manifestation of Radagon, was a means for the greater will to take full control. This would then be why Marika once she understood that she had been used, tried to shatter the Elden ring only for Radagon to try to repair it.

Another strong symbolism of this is how the statues of Marika and Radagon differ from each other. Marika has her arms stretched out in the same pose that she is shackled inside of the Erdtree as if she is forcibly taking that pose, while Radagon takes it willingly. If the pose is a symbol for the golden order and the greater will and their relationship to it, then it would be a strong symbol of them relating to it in very different ways.

The goal of the greater will is after all perfect order, but how can that be if it isn’t in full control. I believe that the purpose for the greater will with the different unions of Marika and Radagon, first with Godfrey, then Rennala and finally between the two different aspects of the same entity, was to produce a new even stronger Empyrean through which it could act.

Once Marika understood that the greater will had been using her and was trying to replace her, she may have been involved in or even orchestrated the plot to assassinate Godwyn, since if his soul died and the body of Ranni died, neither would be a suitable vassal for the greater will to bend to its will.

Mohg and Morgott would not have been options either on account of them being omen. Rykard was also part of the plot and may have been unsuitable because of how he had already started to stray from the golden order in favor of the serpent god. Why Radahn was unsuitable is harder to answer, but he idolized Godfrey and showed no true loyalty towards the golden order. Malenia was unsuitable because of her affliction of scarlet rot, leaving only Miquella, who once he realized that the golden order couldn’t heal his sister and how his love and empathy was in conflict with the golden order’s treatment of omen and the misbegotten also abandoned the golden order and perhaps made himself an unsuitable host through his departure to the realm of shadows.

This obviously just a lot of wild theories and there are plenty of gaps and unanswered questions that remain, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks if you made it this far.
thudnfer7151: In the group shot, I think we've seen the Big Hat Guy before as well since he looks very similar to the guy doing the spinning kicks in the gameplay trailer
titaniumteddybear: I think that the glass shard description is a reference to the Erdtree: looks shiny and impressive from a distance but is ultimately more trouble than it is worth.
ApetureTestSubject: My feeling is that maybe Mesmer is the first born, but that either he rebelled or whatever Marika wanted him to do got way out of hand. Marika might have run away because of what she set loose in Mesmer. Perhaps that’s why fire is blasphemous in The Golden Order, and why Volcano Manor use it. It’s blasphemous because Marika doesn’t want anything to do with Mesmer.
Also, I feel there’s some connection between the corpse gate, Rykard, the immortal serpent, and Mesmer’s snake motif.
Perhaps Rykard is worshipping Mesmer in his blasphemy? Maybe the immortal serpent comes from Mesmer?
All just guesses but I feel there’s something there.
dice6751: Could it be that the corpse she was reaching into was a fellow numen, and the reason why they are so rare now is because she killed all of them, used their runes, and their bodies to make the erd tree?
deadshields8561: I think it's quite likely that this will touch on the Gloam-Eyed Queen in some manner. This place is specifically noted as being where Marika began and that scene at the beginning is one of few times we've ever even seen her or Radagon, her own roots will play a major role alongside Miquella's own parts; their beginnings and Miquella's new ending.

Something interesting I noticed is in Messmer's flames. Their colour matching that of Destined Death could infer that he was indeed acting on his mother's orders, being that she is the one that commands it in the end, but it could also show him fighting in the name of the Godskins instead. They wielded the power of death in its full strength before Marika took the Rune for herself. This flows well with how we know snakes are seen as traitors to Marika's order, if this son of hers did indeed betray her to aid her sworn enemy and rival. Additionally, and this is a bit of a stretch, but to me his 'Impaler' moniker seems like it could fit well with the Godskins, akin to setting up their corpses as a step before they are skinned.
mattbaldwin6446: One thing I noticed about the mountain of viscera is the clear resemblance to skinless people, which I think lends more credit to the Godskin Apostles theory
Uploaded1995: Marika standing in a dark realm surrounded by bloodied bodies whilst claiming godhood has such "God Hand and the Eclipse"-vibes from Berserk.
There is also just no way that Melina and Messmer both only having one functioning eye is coincidence.
orpheus3477: No matter what the DLC will truly be about, this right now is the Golden Age of Lore Hunting. The daily bombardment with high quality vids and theories is just incredible. Man, it's great to be in this community.
lexmortis5722: Red hair is not a symbol of Radagon, but a symbol of a curse from the Fell God. Its been 2 years, people still get this mixed up, Red Braid Whip.
corpsehound: A little pop etymology: Gloam is not a color. 'Gloam' is a verb meaning to darken toward night (and it's a noun, but we'll get to that in a bit). 'Gloaming' is a noun meaning twilight or dusk. So you could say something like, "Inside the portal shines a golden sky in opposition to the gloaming sky without." Consequently, in modern English, the Gloam-Eyed Queen should really be the Gloaming-Eyed Queen, but to make matters more complicated--'gloam' was once a noun meaning the same thing as 'gloaming'. But since the events with the Queen take place long ago, an archaic noun actually fits for her. Both 'gloam' and 'gloaming' trace back to Old English 'glōm', meaning twilight or dusk.
simp-destroyer5862: The Crucible as a primordial version of the Erdtree makes sense given that this shadow Erdtree is being sapped into a structure than can be called a crucible.
Makayla-Emerson: I think the gateway looking thing of corpses is the arch leading into the Erdtree. The Erdtree eats corpses or has them all entangled through the roots as seen in a number of crypts, the whole thing is built off and out of those that died.

May 31 2024

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