psychtration2287: But I pick starfist cause iount wanna hurt prawn shack guy.

grogueQ: I'm not a very good player. I did play a lot of duels and lost about 85%. But when I came back up against that guy that kicked my ass I fought him again to see if I could do better instead of quitting out. I tried to figure out what weapons I could use to beat the cheese that he was using. I would also play in co-op and even a lot of times as a disgusting blue. We almost always beat the invader. For hosts to complain about invaders being op is just ridiculous. I tried my hand at invading for a little bit and I just got ganked over and over again. Yes, it was a skill issue on my part, but if you're a co-oper complaining about overpowered invaders, I rarely saw it. I really don't think there are that many steelovskys in the world, and if you do happen against one of them, maybe just learn something for next time. People will fight against Malenia and die a hundred times, and complain about an Invader coming in and killing them once.

UncleGael1999: Just to clarify, I don't expect "mediocrity" from every opponent I play against.

When I say that I find meta boring, it's because imo, it goes against the unexpected nature of souls pvp and kills the random encounter intrigue.

For example you showed a short clip of a meta player hardswapping to the finger weapon for a clean gravity kill and then quickly switching to the madness hand for a surprise counter. I agree THAT'S cool and unique, because the choice of strategy, weapons and enviormental awareness, all heavely stand out from the usual "Run around and wait for a wiff to throw out your R1 and start a vortex".

Fighting yet another heavy poise pata player is just as boring as fighting yet another RoB/Moonveil L2 spamming Kevin, because you know what to expect.

It has less to do with winning/losing and more so with how interesting was the tactic or weapon choice that the opponent used to read me and outplay me.

alleymae335: I feel like if I pay for the game. Then I can play the game any way I want.

IamNycey: This happens with every game. At the end of the day it's no one's fault that you're not having fun but your own. If you have fun goofing around, you gotta realize that other people have fun by killing the people goofing around, it's a game, don't play if youre not having fun

yvaskhmir: I disagree that "cheese" and "meta" are entirely separate things. Meta is the set of most efficient tools/strategies. If a "cheese" strat can reliably beat a meta setup, the cheese strat should by all means be considered meta, the less skill it requires the better, because it means the margin of error is smaller, which means it is even more efficient. It's kind of about asking the question "what does it mean to play optimally" and, without a doubt, the optimal way to play is to use the tools that yield the best results. Even if a tool is oppressive and reduces skill expression, if it can reliably win, it should be considered efficient.

After watching the last 2 minutes of the video, I stand by what I said, but have found the need to clarify. "Cheese" and "meta" aren't the same, but they frequently overlap in many games, to which ER is no exception. Typically, cheese is only meta for as long as it isn't patched, but if a braindead strategy is even briefly able to win against most meta matchups, it becomes the meta for that window of time, as within said window it is efficient and optimal.

dressednplaid4875: I feel like the same 3 people have been bitching about the meta in souls games since ds1.

paul_aden: Gg gamer very fun video

paradigm_sh1ft: What Peeve said is that Crucible Horn is slept on (which it is) and that it does good in reacting to dragon breath and comboing into crucible breath if you don't get interrrupted after the knock-up. I've seen him get triple kills with this combo, alone. The clip where he talks about it being slept on is the Limgrave clip, not the one on the bridge. That clip is just there because it's funny, not to prove the efficacy of the spell.

adradox: "I really like killing Kevins with my perfectly optimal builds!"

few minutes later

"Look at how stupid Peeve is by showcasing this useless spell! They are not even trying to move!"

The complete lack of understanding of what makes mechanics such as PVP "fun" for people of lower skill is what brings you to this "meta" discussion in the first place. There is nothing wrong with commitment or effort, but when you beat someone ass so hard that they stand no chance to retaliate or learn, don't expect them to come back to your competition. Players of the lower skill and commitment need a spark that will push them to greater heights and this spark will not come from mangling their corpse into dust.

cassiushellsin6243: A game with hundreds of weapons is bound to be condensed into the most optimal ones, then pick which ones you'd like to practice and get good at. Picking up cleanrot isn't gonna automatically make you win against someone who's kicking your ass if you've never used it before.

I enjoy heavy thrusting swords. I've lost so many duels with it but I enjoy using it so much I just don't really care if I lose or win. However, if I DO wanna win, I would go for a meta weapon that I'm actually good at, but don't really enjoy using, if that makes any sense.

CharlieG_0: Steel talks about cheese vs meta... tell us all about it lilbro.

wexdust: So true guys you don't like PvP? Play alone. You want to coop? Play Seamless (you can also disable invasions). Me personally, l dislike ER PvP and l play mainly on Seamless. l didn't disable invasions because l don't care. Someone will come with meta tryhard setup that has 1000 hours in PvP and fk me up and that's expected. I don't get salty about it l just don't care. In the eyes of ER PvPer l am a "Kevin" so they won't think much of me. In my eyes l got defeated in the aspect of the game l don't really enjoy. l don't go to cry on media, l rise back up and continue my PvE path.

you1027: Scrubs just get angy against things they're powerless against and refuse to adjust to, regardless of whether it's cheese or sweat. In a game where the PvP is opt-in.

illwillpress100: Worth noting that not everyone means the same thing when they say "meta". When some people say meta they might mean just bhs cleanrot or raptors tshield or endure pata. Some people might mean everything thats tournament banned. Some people might mean any best in class weapon. Like if someone says "meta bad, unfun" and they just mean cleanrot bhs then sure, that shit needs a nerf. Most things are fine tho, git gud

SiestaYonJyuGo: People watch those videos? Just constant gooner editing.

walterht8083: There is a simple solution for this, which is the game having more multiplayer modes, including randomized weapon modes, although this would make more sense for the colisseum than invasions.

eldenringpvpenthusiast1710: True meta is the willingness to use any tool, regardless of what people think. I have 3 cosplays that will give anyone a run for their runes.

poorchurchmouse: Frosty can beat top meta players at tournaments using goofy stuff. it just requires understanding of the game and the opponent’s setup. you can make your cosplay setup viable if you optimize it properly. and it’s no excuse to play subpar things, something not meta, and expect mercy or free wins just because you’re “creative.” no, guts, crucible, or carian knight builds aren’t creative by themselves.

and on the contrary, you have to understand your build’s limitations and strengths, and play perfectly to win against meta setups.

i’ve played ps wakis yesterday in the same style as ps kibas with crouch r1s against kgs and won, but lost to a grave scythe, because that’s just a winning matchup for them. and I didn’t feel salty about losing to “meta tryhards.” most people aren’t so good that you need meta to beat meta. sure, it’s not fun fighting rakshasa or cleanrot bhs, but if the player using them is bad, you can still win. if they’re semi-competent, then it’s fine to lose. that thing’s broken anyway and you have to switch your weapons, and if you don’t wanna fight meta just frwakin block them!

on that point, I wish people would play by proper ER PvP rules, like not using storm stomp or bhs. it’s just not fun to abuse broken things and then claim victory, cheap.

that said, meta for duels, invasions, and tournaments are all different, and the actual meta is deep and wide. grave scythe, shamshir, psss, halaxe — those are top-tier. but outside of that, stuff like stone club, cgs, venomous fang, wakizashi or fkss shield, kibas, etc. there are tons of viable setups. people just oversimplify and think “meta” means one or two weapons.

also, you play meta cause you wanna improve your skills. if you don’t wanna improve by playing optimally and just wanna goof around it's fine but improving your spacing by playing shamshir is fun, and trying smth goofy to goof is fun too

Swoleson_Rebel: Valid points. Elden Ring definitely has incredible balance problems, but the game also is NOT pvp focused. People often forget its just a free added feature to a RPG, its unbalanced and a lot things are OP and broken. It is what it is

leoornstein3963: "What happened to cosplayers"

Them when I played optimal Dragonslayer Ornstein cosplay with Greased Tree spear:

riomendoza1111: Hello everyone

alchemy5750: I was pretty much a "tryhard" in Dark Souls 3. When Elden Ring came out I was very enthusiastic about pvp, but after I spent some time dueling and invading, I realized I'm just not skilled enough to keep up with the meta. I could spend time becoming better, but with my skill it'd probably taken a lot of time, and I just didn't have the patience for that. So instead I fully dedicated my playtime to fun and unoptimal builds I enjoyed playing, without worrying much about being good or effective. I fought a lot of meta builds in duels, most of which I lost. It was annoying sometimes, but I kinda always knew blaming the other player for it is just dumb. I chose to fight with the disadvantageous build. It was my decision to nerf my character, and I can't expect everyone to do the same. I had some extremely unhinged builds that lost me almost all matches, but I got so many fun comments it was 100% worth it for me.

Also I feel like a lot of beginners severely overestimate meta and underestimate offmeta. If I picked up any of Steelovsky's builds and copied it 1:1, it won't turn me into PvP grand champion instantly. A good gear helps, but without the skill to back it up it's just as useful as its wielder. Iced Estus is a perfect example of this. He uses the weirdest, goofiest meme builds but understands the game's mechanics so well he just makes things work.

theMaszketnik: people are used to have advantage in pve and subconsciously want the same advantage in pvp

Oct 31 2025

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