jimbotron8552: I feel like the game is LESS BALANCED in trios

trios is entirely centralized around ranged and buffball and it fucking sucks ass

chost-059: Short answer yes

Long answer, inexperienced game studio and bad lead dev

SnDScholar: SDF took Dark and Darker out back like a dog bro. GGs to the good times. So Whose gonna do it next and better.

jacksonlittle5993: As a 9 month player all I've ever known is solos. At the end of the day IM is a business with employees that rely on it financially. Regardless of whether the game was intended for trios or not, the current playerbase is established and the majority of players enjoy solos and duos over trios. SDF has a responsibility to IM as a business to ensure that it's healthy monetarily, over-seeking out the initial visions may satisfy a personal passion but obviously damages the stability and longevity of the game. This way of thinking is as if you were a chef that only prepared food you personally enjoyed while you are supposed to be cooking for other people the entire time and what you want personally doesn't really matter. Take your pick, satisfy your personal visions or satisfy your customers. 3300(lots of game left open time, closer to slightly under 2k or 2k) hours here, once solos/duos is gone so am I.

GhostNarwhal1: It isn't impossible to balance 3 modes.

They can have each of the abilities and stats all be slightly different for each mode as needed for balancing.

What they need to do, is hire an actual game balancer and stop going off of what SDF says to do for balance. The want to claim it is impossible to balance for Solo, Duo, and Trios in a single game, but they can't even balance for 1 of them.

BakedCanadian: The large advantage that trio teams had over solos and duos made a players own class choice and playstyle much more dependent on their own teams size, where initially many solo/duo players leaned towards playing rogue simply out of the class's inherent survival benefits. They could easily avoid large groups, while looking for advantageous times to strike / steal loot from their enemies that they were tailing/spying on throughout the dungeon, like a true rogue. A rogue wouldn’t neccesarily have the strength to take out an entire trio, but could likely take out a duo if they'd managed to get the drop on one of them first. This variability in team sizes within the same lobby created a mystery of not knowing what you’re going to run into around any corner, needing to pick your fights carefully and strategically in order to win. It created hilarious dynamics of never knowing if a solo rogue was going to show up out of nowhere to pick someone off from your squad, you were always on edge, never knowing what to expect.

When lobby sizes became locked to team size, all of those solo rogue enjoyers were suddenly only forced to play with each other in the same lobbies, leaving every solo lobby to be infested with only solo rogue mains who were all just not moving and trying to landmine each other. Playing any other class in solo mode other than rogue felt pretty horrible when running into other players, simply because of the mass tendency for solo players to run into a landmine rogue and get instantly killed with zero counterplay. Similarly in trios, all this did was pit all of the buff ball trio squads against each other, which was very repetitive, predictable and boring to play as/against.

So after the lobby changes it looked like this:

Solo lobbies: All landmine rogues. Any other class but PDR fighter was instant death.

Duo: Good mix of class diversity with many viable options, but having a healer was still very preferential because of the high scarcity of fast healing options.

Trio: Only buff ball meta comps.

r_y_l_e_r: I don’t give a fuck what they do but they need to pick a direction and go that way and stop making weekly changes. You can play the game in Jan, then play it again in Feb and it’s completely different. It’s getting ridiculous. I won’t be surprised if this game dies.

dmmbigcash6068: I legitimately cant play trios. Im on an older machine.. and while it can handle solos with no frame drops, trios is a different story. I lag so bad its just not worth the effort.

googlespyingonme: dumb and dumber is cooked lmaoooo... glad i abandoned the ship when i saw the red flags

komikx5424: I love to play games for the distraction. I'm a Solo player, generally. I don't have friends that play video games (I'm OLD), and I'm not usually very good at PvP for the same reason. So when they released Adventure mode, it was like they were finally making a game for my playstyle. I could sole PvE most of the time, and solo PvP when I got a wild hair... And on that rare occasion, I could let MM find me a couple of 'teammates' so that I could complete quests that required one. Now though, SDF has basically said, too bad what you want... So, I guess I'll play the game until Adventure mode is removed and then I'll leave for some other game. Thanks for listening...

trakinajamorreu: Dungeonbone, Dark & Darker... I just want a first person dungeon crawler

ThefamousMrcroissant: Ultimately this boils down to a problem that I see in many games: designers tend to assume they are modelling some kind of ad hoc creative solution and let thematic drive and short term gratification lead design decisions. Game design is the one true science where formalism is so lacking it is actually baffling, especially since so many developers are people with engineering and/or mathematics backgrounds -- yet for some reason they never learned that without categorizing and properly defining relationships everything just comes crashing down eventually.

I think the lead developer has the right mindset by narrowing the scope so that balancing becomes less ambiguous, but the damage is already done and going back on stupid decisions in the past may now very well lead to the downfall of their game.

actarkushulainn: So sick of devs doing this to mp games, i do not want to be forced into a mandatory squad if i want to play something.

chaboibenjammin: “Legendary items should be exciting because they are rare, not because they are powerful.” This might be the most illogical take on loot that I have ever heard.

fuzion5610: Like... isnt the entire concept behind rarer items to be, like... more powerful?

That is in kind of a broad sense but if you want people to find rarer items not for power but for... rarity, what does that even mean at that point?

Are we rebranding to " Dark and Darker Fashion Simulator"?

Come on, Dead Game, Dead Career Dev

DaSmoreSan: This video does relieve a bit of stress and anger about this change. I think i was so mad before because i didnt know WHY he was removing it. I understand the balance issue, but the community will tell you what it needs. We know the game better than SDF does

HahnSoloz: Love Mort. DnD community needs to spread that clip asap

RinTheGnome: Simply change the classes for each mode, make their skills have different values in solos compared to trios, just like how overwatch has different ability strengths when playing 6v6 vs 5v5, they say its impossible but they just don't want to put in the work.

TheRazeryan: It DOES feel like his decisions are killing the game community

Pork_Chop007: Yes, people dont like it for a reason. Paying for something that was included in the game and then taking it out after you payed is a scummy ass move from this company. Scammers.

jk5385: I prefer the removal of solos and duos. Part of what made the playtests fun was the unpredictability.

Dedmort612: "Its my vision" sounds the same as "It came to me in a dream"

kemical4chaos688: legacy steel and sorcery is the way

wizardjian: Solo only player here, been playing since alpha 5 I think... and since the season they actually added solo/duo and as much as I enjoy being anti social, I fully understand that it was an mistake. It was the complete opposite of what the core game idea is and that it will only cause more and more issues down the line like a tumor. While that isn't the only problem with DaD, it does represent the overall issue, lack of an focused direction/ sticking with an direction. While is true you are making a game for the players, the players came for the game you were making. In this case, the mistake was making a change so fundamental that it attracted an entire group that dislikes the core game. So it turns into different factions pushing their side of the game. The same issue can be seen in the PvP vs PvE problem where the idea is PvPvE where people have to deal with the dungeon first and come across Pvp, to what we have now which is PvE is pointless just run at sounds for PvP. At this point the question is which should be trimmed. The original people that got attracted to the game or the newer people that came because of solos. Either one is going to hurt bad but one has got to go. Is choosing to kill off solos the correct choice? No idea. But now that they did, hopefully they will stick with it. If they don't, it'll just piss off the rest of the players that remained. It's a really bad place to be in.

rogerkelsey: Smart teams drive 2-3 sandboxes. Each sandbox has its own balance changes. A solo druid say has 25% less armor in bear. In a party, has normal amounts. Etc. or could do stacking changes like "If aura benefits 2 allies, then grants you 25% armor per ally" type shit.

selcouth86: In interviews, SDF has mentioned OG EverQuest as being a source of inspiration at least once. That MMO's version of legendary items were known as epics. And while a few of them were situationally OP, many provided options the class didn't have otherwise, for added survivability and attacks. The knight epics, for example, were two-handed swords with the unique feature of being able to bash, no shield needed. Even these, arguably the least beneficial epics, were still sought after for that reason, not to mention their procs. The ratios were decent, but not best in slot one expansion later.

The same could be said for a majority of the other epics. They retained value due to their clicks/proc effects, providing enough of a perk/benefit/qol improvement to keep bagged at the very least.

One of the better designs though was the bard epic. When equipped, it applied a standard/low modifier to songs, uniquely modifying all song types including one that otherwise couldn't be modified (singing), whereas instruments would only apply to one song type. Therefore, with the epic equipped, instruments didn't need to be swapped in/out unless the player wanted those higher modifiers. Not only that, but the epic doubled as a melee weapon with a short-duration proc that enhanced the entire party within range, which changed its playstyle, moving it from the back towards the frontline. Plus, the epic just looked cool. All of these bonuses meant that the damage/delay ratio didn't need to be BiS (especially since the class wasn't known for direct physical DPS), and yet the bard player still needed to get into the fray and swing the damn thing in order for that all-important proc to go off and buff the party.

Legendaries need to be powerful and have allure, otherwise no one will care to obtain them. That said, they don't have to be best in slot in terms of damage. And not all legendaries even have to be weapons.

May 30 2025

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